再次更新了第三个故事 (我的自省篇): 请看第三页. 如果你认为Ebay & Paypal会保护你的利益, 请你要小心了!

antique

和大家分享一下我在ebay and Paypal那精心动魄的俩个案例.

我知道ebay上买东西要小心, 故只买100%好评的卖家.

第一个: 从一德国 (100%好评)卖家, 买一老镜. 这家伙贴了一堆照片, 什么问题多不说,老手都知道很多问题是照片看不出的.我发了email去问他, 这家伙很牛, 什么问题都说没.收到东西, 玻璃有划痕. 我提出退 (listing as "return acceptable"), 他不同意, 还说我舞弊 (fraud). 我开了一个claim 在paypal, 我认为我一定会赢.等了二星期, 我收到paypal notice, 居然判我输. 我觉得不可思议, 打电话质问paypal. 一个阿三说 seller listed it as "used" and attached 6 picures. scratch is not unusual for a used lens. if you care, please buy new lens, rather than used. 当场晕! 我问他你有没有consider the email / confirmation from the seller. 阿三说. why didn't you mention earlier. It is too later now. 又晕一回. 我回击他, 我开了claim, paypal 说有需要会要求我提供资料. Has Paypal ever asked me for further information or document? 我也火了.
阿三愣了一回, 强辩, paypal is a payment plateform. we only consider listing contents. Email is not part of listing.
我知道跟他无法理论. 挂了电话, 立马找Ebay讨说法, Ebay 说, we are responsible for listing, not payment. 我赶紧追问, email between buyer and seller 是不是 part of listing. 她想了想, 斩钉截铁地说, "当然是". 这女的还算不错, 告诉我, "you can appeal at Paypal". 阿三可没告诉我, 尽管我问了他还有什么办法.

第二天我又找到那阿三, 上来就镇住他,why didn't you tell me that I could apply for an appeal when I consulted you what I might do after Paypal made a decision, not in my favour?  阿三声音一下低了八度, 喃喃地说ebay不应多人家的事指手划脚. 我进一步威胁他, 我先不投诉你, but you help me proceed the appeal before I change my mind. 接着这家伙主动献殷勤了, 问我要了evidence, seller's email. 我稍微放心了一点.
周末的时候, 我不放心. 打电话到Paypal. 这次一个鬼魅接的. 她看了我的CASE, 跟我说, 我会输, 下周一会send me email.
我急问why?why?why? she said that the seller described the lens as "Used", which is defined by ebay. she read the definition on the phone, "... item might, might not have ....", so scratch is not a significant issue. the seller delivered the lens to you. You paid. Transaction completed.
我也不再客气了, questioned her "MIGHT equals to MUST in your logic or dictionary. Do you think that you can convince people?" 她闭而不答. 要我去问ebay解释"used"定义. 明摆着把我当球踢.

我只能找ebay. ebay小妹照例跟我玩太极. 我火了. 厉声 (真的很凶, 咱在这忍气吞声惯了, 从未对鬼魅凶过)让她闭嘴. 我说我在Paypal in process of appeal. if loose again, I have no chance to get money back. I need to talk with your boss.
结果, 等来了一个老魅, 明显资深了很多.真心地帮我分析,找对策, 还帮我找反驳的依据. 因为这个case 到了life-death,她提议接Paypal 三方通话. 我等了半天, 她告诉我, paypal 拒绝了提议. 我知道这鬼婆是真帮我出大力了(花了她四五十分钟). 我请她通过内部渠道加上她的comments在我的case上.她照做了,还给我做了个最后陈述.但她告诉我她没有决定权. 这是Paypal家的事.

我知道我只能听天由命了. 我已尽力了.

(太累人了, 去喝口水, 明天再续, 我希望在我回国前跟大家分享一下经验教训. 我打中文不行. 觉得有用就给我狠狠加分.我要买好鞋.) 多谢大家加分,我就再写点.

我忐忑不安地等待,每天都要check status of my case at Paypal, Monday, Tuesday, "in process". I saw a narrow chance on Wednesday because the status changed into "seller in appeal".
"My god!", I shouted.  "That means that Paypal is in favour of me this time", I told myself.

However the delight is too too short! the status of my case changed into "close" next day and I received a disapointing email.
"we regret to inform you that ... not in your favour this time after we considered the information you provided, including those emails ..."

I called Paypal immediately, and questioned the reason why Paypal made such a decision which encourages cheating on ebay. I also questioned what happened and what the status  meant, "seller in appeal", on Wednesday.

No answer given by Paypal. No advice give either.

After a couple of minues, I tried to calm down and called ebay lady (team leader). She explained (guessed, exactly speaking) to me that Paypal Germany made the final decision, although Aussie changed their mind. She comforted me a bit and opened a window for me when Paypal closed its door.

I might contact my credit card company, who might get money for me. "If the credit company requires any evidence or document, I am more than happier to help out.", said she.


点击下面的链接,有更精彩的第二个故事.
Fight against Paypal _ 2 classic cases (continue)
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/f ... read&tid=571015

sunrongsz

加油

Wolongshan

私人拍卖物品，不要买国际卖家的会好一点

antique

Wolongshan 发表于 2012-10-23 22:08
私人拍卖物品，不要买国际卖家的会好一点

哥们,今天怎么手头这么紧?这可不是您的风格.

antique

Wolongshan 发表于 2012-10-23 22:08
私人拍卖物品，不要买国际卖家的会好一点

其实国内国际都一样.关键PAYPAL 断案草率. 即便不能自圆其说, 还死要面子,不肯认错.

后来,我才知道, 要扳倒paypal的裁决是很难的.国际交易的话, 其实你要扳倒俩个paypal.几乎不可能. 所以一定要争取赢 at first place.

llycc

这个德国佬是专业卖家吗？

antique

llycc 发表于 2012-10-23 22:28
这个德国佬是专业卖家吗？

是, 非常专业. 还在email里设圈套.事后, 在review case时, 发现他的诡计.

tld128

antique 发表于 2012-10-23 22:56
是, 非常专业. 还在email里设圈套.事后, 在review case时, 发现他的诡计.

请问楼主，那老镜很贵吗？

ylbeethoven

能拍个照片看看吗？这个玻璃划痕有多么厉害

antique

tld128 发表于 2012-10-23 23:02
请问楼主，那老镜很贵吗？

老境通常不便宜. 看您烧到什么程度.

结论是如果what you paid is a fair value, most likely seller will instruct you to send the lens back although they might have listed as "return not acceptable". In my case, the seller listed as "return acceptable", but he refused to honour the promise. as a matter of fact, I ovepaid a lot. He could not get a good price if he mentioned the scratches.

A lesson is that:

You should not assume anything in your favour before you receive it. If your expectation is higher, the price you offered is usually higher than market value too. so you might assume that there might be some problem not disclosed by the seller when you bid on ebay.

antique

ylbeethoven 发表于 2012-10-23 23:09
能拍个照片看看吗？这个玻璃划痕有多么厉害

同志别忘了加分.打字不易.

shangpin

德国 (100%好评)卖家

你直接帮他开处, 给个差评他不就得了 .  

饲养员

心情弄坏了

antique

饲养员 发表于 2012-10-23 23:20
心情弄坏了

何止心情. 就是过堂.那卖家也是再赌.

tabboy

德国很多人素质都很差，都是东欧来的，专门骗钱的

antique

shangpin 发表于 2012-10-23 23:20
德国 (100%好评)卖家

你直接帮他开处, 给个差评他不就得了 .

所以说要和大家分享. 只有走全了整个"法律"程序,才能明白.
毕竟不是每个人都能和ebay的鬼婆敞开心扉畅谈40-50分钟的. 要是坛子里有谁娶了ebay鬼婆的除外.

如我输了官司, 卖家可以要求Ebay delete the negaive feedback. Because he set a trap in his email, he might be very sure that he would win. So he bet everything, include fee, and his reputation.

gkgkgk

PayPal竟然是这样烂的，大跌眼镜。看来支付宝做的还不错。。

支持楼主更新续集。明天白条补上

antique

gkgkgk 发表于 2012-10-24 06:51
PayPal竟然是这样烂的，大跌眼镜。看来支付宝做的还不错。。

支持楼主更新续集。明天白条补上 ...

我怎么找不到我的帖子了? 被版主筛了不成? 您是在哪看到的?

咪咪露

求曝光seller ID

oot

二手镜头不当面交易 不好理解

gkgkgk

antique 发表于 2012-10-24 05:58
我怎么找不到我的帖子了? 被版主筛了不成? 您是在哪看到的?

在：澳洲生活区›投资理财› 零钱罐

password

用过的二手镜头有刮痕不是很正常么？ 有啥不公平的

antique

gkgkgk 发表于 2012-10-24 12:27
在：澳洲生活区›投资理财› 零钱罐

Thanks. It was relocated last night.

nis

说真的，paypal/ebay很多时候无法判断谁对谁错。你说你有理，他说他有理。到底谁有理？还真不知道。不过有一点，如果对方真这么到处骗，怎么可能有100%好评？LZ给对方一个差评，对方不就是没有100%好评了吗？

antique

password 发表于 2012-10-24 12:31
用过的二手镜头有刮痕不是很正常么？ 有啥不公平的

That is the exactly good quesiton which Paypal and the seller used to argue with me.

I resold it to a buyer in US at nearly 50% off price because I disclosed scratches. Do you think that it is fair?

The point is that seller should have accurately disclosed all problems, but he confirm that no scratch, no ... no ...,

antique

nis 发表于 2012-10-24 12:42
说真的，paypal/ebay很多时候无法判断谁对谁错。你说你有理，他说他有理。到底谁有理？还真不知道。不过有 ...

It is really case by case. As I said that in most cases, seller will unconditionally accept returns in order to keep 100% rate. Only when he was 100% sure of that he would win without any doubt. That is why he refused my return request. In the end he lost everything. there is black record on his credit, not only on ebay, but also on banking. He had to pay a charg-back fee as a punishment. He is in a bad situation when he argues with any buyer in future. Also bank will freeze his sales revenue for a longer time in case there is some charge-back happens.

咋地办哩

gkgkgk 发表于 2012-10-24 06:51
PayPal竟然是这样烂的，大跌眼镜。看来支付宝做的还不错。。

支持楼主更新续集。明天白条补上 ...

我一直觉得支付宝比paypal好，paypal有店大欺客的感觉，还以为自己是哪根葱，实质差劲透

天行健

咱刚花了几刀在ebay上买了个小玩意

antique

咋地办哩 发表于 2012-10-24 12:56
我一直觉得支付宝比paypal好，paypal有店大欺客的感觉，还以为自己是哪根葱，实质差劲透 ...

Paypal is getting down hill now, compared to that 3 years ago. Now they just use standard or form letter to respond to your cases. No one really goes through all facts, so that there are lots of critical negligence in their deicision making.

I can understand the mistake, but I don't understand that they are unwilling to admit the mistake and correct it when you appealed. When you questioned the critical points, they had no courage to directly respond to your challenge. Instead, they kick you away to Ebay. You feel like a ball being kicked, and rolling between ebay and paypal. If they don't know the rules, you will lost yourself.

I still don't understand the reason why the paypal staff didn't tell me the appeal process and credit card charge-back process when I clearly asked him what action I might, or could do after the initial decision  made not in my favour.

That is the purpose for which I wrote this artical. I hope that all people know their rules clearly.

pz2011

看了半天，lz说的是相机镜头吧，我还以为是老花镜呢。
相机镜头有划痕肯定要退，楼主加油。