能否把已经买断的novated lease的车再次novated lease

bennytang

基本情况如下

本人购新车，使用了novated lease，1年的合同，并且已经买断。之前比较多2年以上的lease合同，发现都没有1年划算，因为1年车贬值快，省税多。
现在进入第二年，想再次使用同一俩车，再来一次1年的合同，不知道是否可行？应该如何操作？谢谢!

黑山老妖

我已经这样操作了几年了。但是第二次lease 的价格不得超过第一次的payout.。
如果两个lease是连着的，你根本不用payout。把新的lease价格做成第一个lease的residual value，直接就可以续新的。

zxcity

我觉得也是一年比较划算，不过还是要有请足迹simon来解答

zxcity

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-12-24 23:14
我已经这样操作了几年了。但是第二次lease 的价格不得超过第一次的payout.。
如果两个lease是连着的，你根 ...

那第二次lease 的residual value怎么算呢

黑山老妖

zxcity 发表于 2012-12-24 23:30
那第二次lease 的residual value怎么算呢

65% of lease value

zxcity

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-12-25 00:07
65% of lease value

这样就比lease 2 年少了10%左右得rv了，确实不错

sundaliang

能给讲讲啥是  novated lease？

simonwang

sale and lease back。

典

可不可以买下来，比如3万
然后卖给朋友按市场价3万5
然后再用3万5的价格进行lease

盐商格格

楼主已经买断了？因该先来问问的，你可能亏了GST那部分了。我是用新的lease refinance 以前的lease,这样算下来差不多3年之后residual就很低了。问题是每次refinance你的FBT的base value是不变的，也就是你买新车时候的价格。

盐商格格

典 发表于 2012-12-25 17:34
可不可以买下来，比如3万
然后卖给朋友按市场价3万5
然后再用3万5的价格进行lease

没有太大意思，因为你的FBT就高了。买断时付的GST也高。

盐商格格

再看了一遍楼主的意思，是想开一段时间重新作sale lease back? 目的是想降低FBT吗？我问过，如果几个月之内，税务局不允许，他们知道你这是为了减税。时间长了我不知道，要多长也不知道。

bennytang

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-12-25 00:14
我已经这样操作了几年了。但是第二次lease 的价格不得超过第一次的payout.。
如果两个lease是连着的，你根 ...

老妖，请教

什么是第一次的payout？是指第一次新车的购车价吗？

“把新的lease价格做成第一个lease的residual value，直接就可以续新的。”
这个我觉得不是特别划算，比如我购车价格4w澳币，我的车由于是混动，所以1年后residual value只有50%，所以只有2w。你的意思用这个2w，来做一个新的购车计划。我最想做的事情是：第二年比如评估价格3w5，我就用这个3w5来做，这样节约的税很多。

bennytang

盐商格格 发表于 2012-12-25 17:50
再看了一遍楼主的意思，是想开一段时间重新作sale lease back? 目的是想降低FBT吗？我问过，如果几个月之内 ...

虽然不是很明白sale lease back的意思，但是我想是的，我就是这个意思，我想反复的按照二手车的真正价值来做lease。
比如我新车4w，1年后residual value只有2w（混动的特殊情况，一般是65左右），但是1年后实际该车起码价值在3w以上，如果按照3w做，还能1年后residual value只有1.5w就爽了。

税务也太聪明了，5555。难道非要逼我卖车再买另一辆车不成！我的爱车1年中毫发无损，性能卓越，舍不得让啊，哪里找这么好的二手车去。。。买新车，第一年贬值速度太快，基本上把省税的优势全吞了。

黑山老妖

bennytang 发表于 2012-12-26 23:38
老妖，请教

什么是第一次的payout？是指第一次新车的购车价吗？

第一个NV是第一年novated lease 的residual value。
NL的最高贬值速度是一年35%。也就是说每年的RV不能低过lease value 的65%。

小水OZ

bennytang 发表于 2012-12-27 00:42
虽然不是很明白sale lease back的意思，但是我想是的，我就是这个意思，我想反复的按照二手车的真正价值 ...

楼主我觉得你对novated lease还不是很清楚，你的fbt是公司出还是个人出？你买断车的时候要付gst的，但当你再次把买断的车重新去做novated lease, 已付的gst是不退的。而且当你第二次把车买断以后还要再交一次gst。这两笔gst数目不同但是有重复叫的部分。如果你在lease结速前refinance就不会有这个问题。

据我所知版主是对的，ato允许最大的折旧是一年35%左右，没听说过50%的，楼主肯定吗？是已经做过50%了吗？如果能有50%倒是非常合算的。

bennytang

小水OZ 发表于 2012-12-27 09:57
楼主我觉得你对novated lease还不是很清楚，你的fbt是公司出还是个人出？你买断车的时候要付gst的，但当 ...

我已有就是第一年50%， 车是丰田的prius，可能因为是电动车，允许多贬值一些。

bennytang

小水OZ 发表于 2012-12-27 09:57
楼主我觉得你对novated lease还不是很清楚，你的fbt是公司出还是个人出？你买断车的时候要付gst的，但当 ...

关于GST，我还是有些怀疑。我有个同事，买了二手车，drive away价格2w，然后novated lease，novated lease公司直接给了他2w，你的意思，之后还有一次GST？

我回头在线报价先，看看报价表，是不是真的有GST。

simonwang

Mark

sunyu321

黑山老妖 发表于 2012-12-27 07:37
第一个NV是第一年novated lease 的residual value。
NL的最高贬值速度是一年35%。也就是说每年的RV不能低 ...

http://www.zenra.com.au/minimum-residuals-novated-lease-ato   

想请问老妖，我的车子也是一年的novated lease,快到期了在考虑Option

根据上面的链接，似乎不能把车的residue value重新package再扣 65.63%.

拿数字说明的话，全新corolla 20906(ex GST), 现在一年快到期了13590, 买下来的话要加GST,按照你的方式重新打包的话 residue =8833

根据上面的链接residue =11707

黑山老妖

sunyu321 发表于 2013-1-24 09:24
http://www.zenra.com.au/minimum-residuals-novated-lease-ato   

想请问老妖，我的车子也是一年的nov ...

Talking to someone on the phone.
THY rules have been changed substantially over the last two years.
Fell them what you want and find out what can be done.

sunyu321

黑山老妖 发表于 2013-1-24 09:31
Talking to someone on the phone.
THY rules have been changed substantially over the last two years ...

k thx!

simonwang

When "两个lease是连着的", you actually didn't pay out the first lease, then you have to refinance the residual value of the first lease in practice. However, if you pay out the first lease then do a "sell and lease back" deal, the finance amount can be the market value of your car or even any value as long as it seems fair and accepted by the bank.

However, in both cases, the FBT base value is always the original price at the first time when you leased the car as base value is the cost price to "employer" at "earliest time". So no matter how many times you refinance, FBT base value is alway the first one. Only chance it will be reduced by 1/3 is after four FULL FBT years.

simonwang

Technically, when refinance one year lease for another year, the residual value should be at least 56.25% as per ATO ruling. But the reality is lots of finance companies will do 65% * 65% = 42.67%.

Haven't seen anyone been caught but certainly there is a risk.

bennytang

已经收到一份来自租车公司的通知如下：

What to do with your car?
Option 1. Purchase the vehicle or trade-in to a dealership
If you choose to purchase your existing vehicle at end of lease:
• Contact the LeasePlan Customer Service Centre by the ‘Contact Us’ via LeasePlan Online or via reply
email to notify of your intent to purchase the vehicle.
• You will be responsible for re-registration once you have notified LeasePlan of your intention to purchase
the vehicle. Should the vehicle become unregistered, it must not be driven until you are in receipt of
confirmation of the vehicle’s re-registration.
• LeasePlan will provide a tax invoice for your vehicle, and email it to you with payment instructions.
• Full payment must be received and cleared by LeasePlan before the last day of your lease.
• Upon receipt of payment, LeasePlan will finalise your lease and cease invoicing your employer.
• If funds are not cleared by the payment due date, the lease will continue.
If you choose to trade-in the vehicle and the dealership are making payment on your behalf to LeasePlan
you are still responsible for the vehicle until payment has been received by LeasePlan.
Clearing of funds – Paying out your lease
Your lease cannot be terminated with LeasePlan until LeasePlan have received clear access to the funds.
The banking institutions in Australia take approximately three days to clear funds, therefore funds need to be
deposited at least three days prior to the payment due date on your tax invoice.
If a third party is making the payment on your behalf, it is your responsibility to ensure that the funds have
been deposited to LeasePlan.
IMPORTANT - Trade-ins:
If you wish to trade-in your vehicle and obtain a new leased vehicle through LeasePlan, please first request
a quote via LeasePlan Online.
LeasePlan will provide the quote for your new vehicle from a LeasePlan preferred dealer, and you can then
approach our preferred dealership directly to discuss a trade-in on your current vehicle.
In the case that your new vehicle will be delivered after your end of lease date, LeasePlan can make
arrangements for you to do a short term extension on your current lease, to ensure a smoother transition
between the two lease arrangements.
Option 2. Extend Your Lease
If you choose to extend the lease:
• Visit LeasePlan Online and request a lease extension quote through the ‘My Contracts’ tab.
• LeasePlan will re-register the vehicle upon receipt of advice of your intention to extend the lease.
• LeasePlan will send an updated quote based on the requested terms. The operating cost budgets will be
set to allow for any current surpluses/deficits over the additional term of the lease.
• Upon receipt of your signed lease extension quote, a new ‘Final Package Allocation’ will be sent to you
and your employer, and new salary deductions will commence.
• All previous fleet management services will continue and your current fuel card/s remain valid.
Option 3. Sell the vehicle (Privately or via 'Pickles Novated Lease Remarketing')
Whilst you have the option to sell your car privately, many drivers have expressed their dislike of this option
and choose 'Pickles Novated Lease Remarketing' service instead. This is a convenient way to sell your
vehicle and payout your existing lease (if applicable).
Pickles can:
- Payout your residual value on the due date – even if the vehicle has not yet been sold on your
behalf
- Sell your vehicle from one of 18 facilities nationally (in all capital cities and large regional centres)
- Provide a hassle-free means of selling your vehicle
Pickles will charge a flat fee for the above service, leaving you to benefit from the potential profit built up in
your vehicle without the inconvenience of the private sale process. To find out more please visit the Pickles
website
www.picklesnovated.com.au
You will be responsible for re-registration once you have notified LeasePlan of your intention to sell the
vehicle. The vehicle must not be driver after the registration expiry date unless you are in receipt of
confirmation of the vehicle’s re-registration.

bennytang

后来我又咨询了，我能否先买断，再以市场价值卖给租车公司，答复如下：
Please note that the options provided on the end of lease form are the only options available.



The scenario you describe below is not available under current Australia Tax Laws.



If you wish to dispose of the vehicle you may do so by paying out the residual value.



Any surplus on the disposal of the vehicle is tax free income.



You may then opt to purchase a new vehicle under a new lease. You may also include a personal contribution of up to 20% on the purchase of the vehicle, reducing the total amount financied by LeasePlan.



If you do wish to refinance the vehicle then you may only do so at the residual value.

。

bennytang

接着我又问，我这种情况和买二手车来lease有啥不一样啊？答复如下：

You may lease the vehicle back to LeasePlan, however this is generally not to your advantage.



When you purchase the vehicle at the residual value you are required to pay GST.



So after you have leased this vehicle to us again you will pay GST on the residual again.



On a new vehicle you do not pay GST upon vehicle purchase only on the residual.



Also the FBT value on the vehicle will not be set at the market value as it would be with a used vehicle due to the vehicle already having an FBT relationship with your employer.



You may be better off to dispose of your vehicle and purchase a new vehicle under lease.

bennytang

达人看看和分析一下吧，我现在的想法，要不还是lease结束后委托pickles卖了算了。可惜一辆好车了，舍不得，至今从未擦碰过（希望不是乌鸦嘴。。。）

bruce_mel

Mark

greenteacake825

Mark