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楼主:Jasmin365

[自购小窝] 大结局,记录下跟邻居为了fence,plants走法律途径的过程 [复制链接]

发表于 2021-3-29 00:41 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 melody111 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 melody111 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
俗话说远亲不如近邻,但好的邻居是可遇不可求的。
支持楼主维权,希望事情能得到妥善的解决,并且关系不要搞得太僵,毕竟抬头不见低头见的。

说个朋友的事情安慰一下楼主,他家买的house因人在国内基本没怎么住过,结果收到水费账单5000多刀。经调查发现,是邻居偷用他家水,并且恶意24小时不停的浪费水。据说政府也很重视浪费水资源案件,已经上庭了,他邻居目前面临高额赔偿,和政府的罚款。
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发表于 2021-3-29 06:53 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 zykk759 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 zykk759 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
melody111 发表于 2021-3-29 00:41
俗话说远亲不如近邻,但好的邻居是可遇不可求的。
支持楼主维权,希望事情能得到妥善的解决,并且关系不要 ...

判了?赔了多少?罚了多少?好奇。

发表于 2021-3-29 08:39 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Mombeauty 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Mombeauty 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
看了全贴,感谢楼主也挺一下楼主,我学到了很多,因为最近想重新整治自己院子的绿化,其实有种竹子的打算,现在明白要选品种,然后充分考虑根系的问题,不给邻居和自己添堵。另外,提醒一下楼主,你的律师是可以上庭的吗?我知道有些律师是不上庭的,他们会不断的建议协商解决,看信件确实有些拖沓。上庭前需要有双方协商不成的记录,但是三次足矣。坚决不能再有任何回合了,个人建议可以安排一次见面,作为协商的终结,也明确告知对方此次协商未果会上庭。如果对方有退让,态度良好,就接受了。法庭也不见得完全公正,楼主给我的感觉是很有正义感的,一码是一码的人,但是这个世界不是公正无所不在的。
诸善奉行

发表于 2021-3-29 10:13 |显示全部楼层
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Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-26 16:59
是的,现在尴尬了。没经过我同意就发信给对方这件事,确实... (我知道他是好意,想尽快和解,但我好歹还 ...

又是一个被律师忽悠的。。。
请加分,谢

发表于 2021-3-29 12:30 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 小兔白又白 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 小兔白又白 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
melody111 发表于 2021-3-29 00:41
俗话说远亲不如近邻,但好的邻居是可遇不可求的。
支持楼主维权,希望事情能得到妥善的解决,并且关系不要 ...

原来这样的无良邻居这么多
也说一个类似的情况。

公司会计的投资房疫情期间空置了一段时间,不久收到2000多的电费账单,很费解。
后来发现是邻居在后院连接了一根超长电线在偷电。。。
一起流浪吧

发表于 2021-3-29 12:43 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 小兔白又白 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 小兔白又白 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 小兔白又白 于 2021-3-29 12:50 编辑

通过这个贴子学习了很多,特别是园艺方面的法律知识,也去看了一下Act 2006,了解到许多未来也许能用到的保护自己权益的法律依据。

曾经也有跟白垃圾走法律程序的经历,不过没有楼主的这么复杂。Legal aid到律师信,还没到上庭就问题解决了。最后对方赔付了几千刀,去掉律师的费用还剩了几百块。就经济结果来看找不找律师区别不大,但我可以从心理上理解楼主,走到这一步的,大都不是为了钱的事。另外在和律师沟通的过程中,我也发现律师看问题的角度跟我们普通人非常不同。一些我们可以忽略的细节恰恰是律师可以利用并从而赢得官司的重点。相反有些我们执着的“占理“,由于没有法规或者证据的支撑而变得不值一文。

就目前来看,楼主律师有点软,也许如前面网友说的,律师觉得上庭赢的概率不大。建议明确跟律师提要求1.未来邻居信件不回复,有问题直接庭上说,communication已经more than enough了。 2. Court裁决,事情结束。法制社会,尽人事就不用听天命了。
一起流浪吧
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发表于 2021-3-29 13:17 |显示全部楼层
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Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-26 17:59
是的,现在尴尬了。没经过我同意就发信给对方这件事,确实... (我知道他是好意,想尽快和解,但我好歹还 ...

这是不是认怂了,邻居以后更加趾高气扬

发表于 2021-3-29 16:57 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jasmin365 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jasmin365 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 Jasmin365 于 2021-3-29 17:55 编辑
小兔白又白 发表于 2021-3-29 12:43
通过这个贴子学习了很多,特别是园艺方面的法律知识,也去看了一下Act 2006,了解到许多未来也许能用到的保 ...


嗯,已经非常非常明确地跟律师说了。

好,这个帖子对大家有学习作用就好。大家可以看到我掉进的坑,磕破的头,以后避免重复我的错误也是另一种意义上的有价值。

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参与人数 1积分 +6 收起 理由
dolinloop + 6 感谢分享

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发表于 2021-4-5 17:05 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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Jasmin365 发表于 2021-3-26 11:11
刚律师回了我昨晚的信,听口气,他已经把之前我让他别发的他写给邻居的已经发了。律师是希望不用上庭,可以 ...

这个帖子怎么又被顶上来了 楼主真的是没有一点经验 不光被邻居忽悠 还被律师牵着鼻子走 你不让律师发东西律师还能发出去 就这样楼主还付律师费呢 真的是大开眼界

发表于 2021-4-6 01:01 |显示全部楼层
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谢谢楼主分享

发表于 2021-4-6 09:26 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 几年以后 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 几年以后 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
请问楼主能分享一下邻居背景么? 年龄种族职业什么的,以后找邻居做个参考,谢谢啦。
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发表于 2021-4-10 23:43 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jasmin365 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jasmin365 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
几年以后 发表于 2021-4-6 08:26
请问楼主能分享一下邻居背景么? 年龄种族职业什么的,以后找邻居做个参考,谢谢啦。 ...

这些不具参考性。垃圾人在什么种族,什么职业,什么学历中都会有,只不过是概率大小的问题。

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All_Black + 2 我很赞同

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发表于 2021-4-11 00:01 |显示全部楼层
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跟律师说,打赢了官司 最后的费用是被告方 出 对方会瞎出SHIT 来

发表于 2021-4-11 01:11 |显示全部楼层
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马一下

发表于 2021-4-11 09:30 |显示全部楼层
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Jasmin365 发表于 2021-4-10 22:43
这些不具参考性。垃圾人在什么种族,什么职业,什么学历中都会有,只不过是概率大小的问题。 ...

说一下呗。
我知道垃圾人哪里都有
好奇一下楼下邻居是什么样的

发表于 2021-4-11 14:13 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jasmin365 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jasmin365 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
几年以后 发表于 2021-4-11 08:30
说一下呗。
我知道垃圾人哪里都有
好奇一下楼下邻居是什么样的

满足下你的好奇心。是local白垃圾。
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发表于 2021-4-11 15:43 |显示全部楼层
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Jasmin365 发表于 2021-2-20 12:32
心理承受能力开始也不行,瞻前顾后怕麻烦。后来索性做好最坏结果的打算,再加上人生一回,多经历一些,到 ...

楼主高人,想的通透。 :

发表于 2021-4-11 16:48 |显示全部楼层
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邻居瞎停车 过来学一学

发表于 2021-4-11 21:12 |显示全部楼层
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足迹筒子们每人捐100块跟这个傻叉鬼佬打官司打到底

发表于 2021-4-14 23:05 |显示全部楼层
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感谢楼主分享

发表于 2021-4-15 11:50 |显示全部楼层
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心痛一下楼主的钱包,但是干得好,遇到这种事情千万不要姑息
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发表于 2021-4-20 22:46 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jasmin365 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jasmin365 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 Jasmin365 于 2021-4-20 21:55 编辑

为了满足吃瓜群众进次瓜田能吃饱吃好,遂将最近的料聚集一下,整理如下:

首先,非常感谢足友HUANG003261的智囊相助,给了我睿智的建议和修改意见。

话说上次律师发出最后一封律师信后,邻居终于把palm trees修剪了,接下来一天,此人竟然在光天化日之下直接进入我家后院,被我撞了个正着,我简直不敢相信自己的眼睛,而此人竟然没有半点愧色,说是进我家院子找猫。我怀疑此人之前已经偷偷进我家院子N多次了。找到猫后,我给此人发了条短信,警告他以后不能再trespass我家。过后,我把此人trespass的经过录像发给了律师,律师说此人在这个时候这样做,极有可能是过来做测量,拍照的。

又过几天,此人差老婆前往我家敲门找猫,我直接回绝,说没看见猫,如果看到猫会打电话给他们,这个老婆比她老公要淳朴些,但也被洗脑了。我跟此人老婆聊了下,说到如果上庭,对谁都没好处,女人说这些是我们的问题,女人还抱怨说我们为啥还在不断地增加东西,比如以前只是说竹子,后来为啥又要求他们修剪palm trees。我也算明白了,不是一家人不进一家门的古话了。

不久后,收到了此邻一如既往的裹脚布长信,长信我下一楼发,一派胡言。因为之前跟律师再三关照过了,所以律师不回信,留给我处理。

因为之前律师跟此邻一场混战,我的demands已经支离破碎,所以我需要再给此人发封信,做下最后澄清,然后上庭。我草拟了一封信,先跟网友HUANG003261分享了一下,网友说我的信过于情绪化,不利于我的弱者形象,建议我只打胜算高的fence牌,palm tree就不提了,于是我删掉了形容词,改了口气,给此邻发了过去,现在等此邻另一封裹脚布回复就上庭。

我的信如下,
I refer to your letter of 6 April 2021, received on 13 April 2021.
You dragged a simple solution matter to a complex issue, by making excuses, fabricating stories, and asking unnecessary questions.
On 31/3/2021, ... trespassing on my property was intimidating and creepy. I assume that you had done this many times before I accidentally caught you. TRESPASSING IS ILLEGAL, IS A CRIME. If you do it again, I have to call the police immediately.
On 30/3/2021, I noticed heaps of dry fronds were finally removed from your palm trees. I will appreciate you do it on a regular basis in the future. I am not sure what you meant that you had kept pruning your trees for years. Obviously, following normal standards and using the right way are important.

I restate my demands as the follows,
1. Remove the excessive bamboos,
2. Place a proper root barrier,
3. Reinstate the dividing fence,
Above jobs must be done by competent contracts.

All my demands are basic and cannot be more reasonable. They should be agreed completely. If I do not get a satisfactory answer in 3 days, I will take you to court.
Your attitude and behaviors have disrupted the neighborhood. Please understand that going to court is not only for the tangible objects but also for the social order behind it. The result will contribute to enhance our civilized community.

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清咖一杯 + 5 感谢分享
maymei + 4 感谢分享
CenCenMa + 4 感谢分享

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发表于 2021-4-20 22:50 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jasmin365 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jasmin365 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
此次裹脚布原文如下,

YOUR LETTER
Your letter does not contain a legal justification of your client's claim:
•        The Dividing Fences Act (Fences Act) does apply to any determination by the Court whether to order a remedy amounting to me contributing to the cost of
construction/restoration/repair of a dividing fence, regardless of the reason for ordering that remedy
•        The suggestion that I access the boundary to contain the bamboo growth by removing the healthy bamboo on my property as shown in the enclosed picture is a destructive approach, as is your suggestion that I remove my five palm trees along the boundary, both contrary to the objectives of the Trees (Disputes Between Neighbours) Act 2006 (Trees Act)
•        Your statement that "the common law of nuisance has some relevance" indicates that you are applying outdated law; section 5 of the Trees Act reads "No action may be brought in nuisance as a result of damage caused by a tree"
•        Rule 3.7(2) of the L&E Court Rules 2007 prevents a Court order for costs unless it is "fair and reasonable in the circumstances". It is not fair or reasonable that I pay to reinstate the existing wooden fence because:
o        I have offered to contain the bamboo growth alongside the boundary
o        you have correctly admitted this dividing fence is not damaged
o        reinstating this dividing fence will duplicate the taller and superior brushwood fence alongside it since they have a similar appearance, constructed from dead brown wood
o        a replacement fence will create a vermin trap which will prevent management of growth
o        the vermin trap deters buyers of both properties to avoid future dispute over its upkeep
o        your clients will be in a better position if I pay to repair a c.30 year old fence.
None of your letters over two months refer to any section in the Trees Act to justify your clients' claim, wrongly suggesting that you can obtain Court orders to remove all my bamboo and my five palm trees by relying on the law of nuisance, something prohibited by sS of the Trees Act.
TREES ACT
Proper discharge of your duty under Rule 4, to deliver legal services "competently" and to "comply with ... the law" to resolve this dispute requires the following approach under the Trees Act:
Section 4 applies the Act to this dispute, since the bamboo is a tree in a residential zone.
Section 5 prohibits an action in nuisance to resolve this dispute.
Section 7 allows your clients to apply to the Court to remedy damage to property on the land as a consequence of the bamboo. It is telling that your clients have not claimed any such damage, as per your submission that "removal and reinstatement of the existing fence is only an issue because that is your preferred method of treating and containing your invading bamboo". Property damage does not include growth on your clients' property which they can tend to. The Trees Act does not allow your clients to not manage tree growth on their property for ten years then get an order for their neighbour to tend to that growth.
Section 9 allows the Court to "make such orders as it thinks fit to remedy" damage as a consequence of the bamboo, including authorisation for me to enter your clients' property to carry out work. Remedies are to have utility. They are to be proportional to the damage, to put an end to the damage, not to create a new source offuture damage and notto put applicants in a better position.
The Court cannot order a remedy for the growth on your client's property since that is not property damage. Your clients have been best placed to take earlier action to tend to the bamboo growth on their property over the last ten years. They even failed to tell me about the growth near the boundary which they know cannot be seen except from their property. These factors place fault on your clients for not maintaining growth on their property, leaving them without remedy.
If the old wooden fence is removed to allow a barrier to be installed near the boundary, then your clients cannot reasonably claim a remedy for that fence to be reinstated since that fence has no value; this is a conclusion drawn from the following facts:
•        your clients had the wooden fence concealed by an old weatherboard structure for ten years
•        when the weatherboard blew down two and a half years ago, they refused for 17 months to respond to my current offer to attend their property to contain the growth
•        your clients have refused me permission to go on their property to contain the growth, something they are not allowed to do under s20 of the Fences Act.
•        the wooden fence duplicates the existing taller and superior brushwood fence running alongside it since both have a similar appearance
•        reinstating the fence will create a vermin trap which will prevent management of growth
•        reinstating the fence will deter buyers of both properties to avoid future disputes over upkeep of the vermin trap
•        reinstating the wooden fence will result in me paying the cost of a new dividing fence to replace one that is c.30 years old.
These facts undermine your clients' claim that this old fence has significant value, hence, its reinstatement cannot be justified as a remedy.
In any event, a determination by the Court whether it should order a remedy that I contribute to the cost of construction/restoration/repair of a dividing fence will deal with a subject specifically covered by the Dividing Fences Act 1991. My letters have referred you to subsection 6(2} "This section applies whether or not a dividing fence already separates the adjoining lands" and to the definition in section 3 of "fencing work" which is "construction, replacement, repair or maintenance of the whole or part of a dividing fence".
he doctrine of "Lex specialis derogate legi genera Ii" requires that the Fences Act, being a law governing a specific subject matter, override the Trees Act when considering an order for a remedy to contribute to the cost of construction/restoration/repair of a dividing fence.
The doctrine is affirmed in section 33 of the Interpretation Act 1987 which requires a construction of an Act "that would promote the purpose or object underlying the Act'' i.e. for an Act to deal with its subject matter but not to the extent that it deals with the subject matter of another Act which specifically deals with that subject matter ..
The factors in s4 of the Fences Act do not justify another dividing fence on this boundary was explained in my letter of 2 March 2021.
Section 12 requires the Court to consider the following matters before determining your client's application to remove my bamboo and five palm trees:
b3)- my privacy: your client's house has a balcony which is about five metres from the boundary, which give your clients a view my swimming pool, the whole of my backyard, all the way to the patio as shown in the attached picture. This was the reason for planting the bamboo, to provide a screen to give me privacy from the intrusion of your client's balcony
(d)         - biodiversity: there is no other house in the vicinity to my knowledge with a substantial bamboo presence, the area thereby benefits by the variety-Of vegetation I have introduced
(e)         - scenic value: Willoughby Council area is known for its green canopy and the bamboo creates a screen in amongst five palm trees. That screen extends about nine metres in length and 15 metres in height, which creates an aesthetic which cannot be matched by a hedge
(h) - act or omission by your clients which has caused damage to their property: there is no damage to your client's property, as correctly admitted by you. Your clients have been in the best position to have taken earlier action to manage the bamboo growth on their property over the last ten years. Instead, your clients have failed to carry out their legal responsibility under the Tress Act to tend the growth on their property, they have failed to maintain the old wooden fence on the boundary and failed to alert me to the growth while knowing that the growth was not visible from my property, exacerbating the level of work needed to tend to the growth on their property.
CONCLUSION
I hope that the above submissions as well as my letter of 2 March 2021 assist in understanding the law which applies to this dispute. That law does not provide grounds for a remedy that I either:
•        tend to your client's garden for them
•        remove healthy bamboo on my property to access the boundary to contain its growth
•        pay for construction/restoration/repair of the old wooden dividing fence.
Section 9 of the Trees Act and section 20 of the Fence Act affirm my right to apply for a Court order to enter your clients' property to carry out agreed work to contain the bamboo; I have arranged for inspection of your clients' property in their company about five times without incident so there is no reason for their objection. The offer in my letter of 2 March 2021 remains open for acceptance.

发表于 2021-4-20 23:54 |显示全部楼层
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发表于 2021-4-20 23:55 |显示全部楼层
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支持

发表于 2021-4-21 00:05 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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楼主加油
楼主的信还是有点情绪化啊
相对来说,邻居的信虽然长但是语气和文体比较合适,上庭可能会对他们的印象分有利
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发表于 2021-4-21 00:27 来自手机 |显示全部楼层
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大概看了下比较同情楼主,但是不得不说楼主的信跟对方比起来差了不少,个人认为上庭等等不一定结果楼主能接受,只能祝好运。

发表于 2021-4-21 01:26 |显示全部楼层
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发表于 2021-4-21 09:25 |显示全部楼层
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dolinloop 发表于 2021-4-20 23:05
楼主加油
楼主的信还是有点情绪化啊
相对来说,邻居的信虽然长但是语气和文体比较合适,上庭可能会对他们的 ...

这个邻居的口气是在我们律师跟他们说信件会作为呈堂证供以后才画风突变的,之前的简直不堪入目。
咱不怕,上庭的时候,他们之前的信会一并呈上。

发表于 2021-4-21 09:27 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jasmin365 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jasmin365 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
midorfeed 发表于 2021-4-20 23:27
大概看了下比较同情楼主,但是不得不说楼主的信跟对方比起来差了不少,个人认为上庭等等不一定结果楼主能接 ...

不期待外国人能跟我的中文说得一样溜。同理。

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