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楼主:oz2009

[个人所得税] 再问work related travel cost [复制链接]

发表于 2012-10-6 20:22 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Bailey 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Bailey 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
已经扔了一些票据,有Credit Card transaction  的还勉强,Cash 的部分但愿可以用Travel Diary。
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发表于 2012-10-6 20:30 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 3IX37 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 3IX37 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 3IX37 于 2012-10-7 15:45 编辑
taxbreak 发表于 2012-10-6 00:34
反正如果travel allowance没有显示在group certificate上 是不能用commissioner's rates的 风险都是自己承 ...


A tribute has to be paid to our elite accountants, as they raised a very valid point here that Travel Allowance has to be paid to an employee before he or she can claim travel allowance expenses under substantiation exception rules under subdivision 900-B.

The technical disagreement we have here is the interpretation of what constitute the travel allowance, what it means by “must be paid as a travel allowance” and whether it has to be separately stated on the taxpayer’s PAYG payment summary statement to be a travel allowance here?

Before this debate goes any further, let’s refresh what legislations are in relation to this regard.

s.900-50 and s.900-55 ITAA 1997 are the substantiation exception rules for travel allowance expenses respectively for domestic and international.
And both state that you can deduct the travel allowance expenses without written evidence and travel records if the commissioner considers the amount is reasonable. (Note the exception rule does not cover international accommodation, for international accommodation a written evidence/invoice must be kept for substantiation.)

And the commissioner publishes his tax decision each year for this regard, and for 2012 TD2012/17 indicates what the reasonable amount accepted by the commissioner.

And then what is a travel allowance expenses in legislation?
s.900-30(2) defines it as a loss or outgoing incurred for your work travel that covered by a travel allowance. The losses or outgoings must be for accommodation or food & drinks or incidental expenses. (note here the word used is “covered” by the travel allowance)

What is a travel allowance then?
s.900-30(3) as well defines it as an allowance paid by your employer to you or yet to be paid to you, which covers the losses or outgoings that you incur for work travel either domestically or internationally away from home and that are losses or outgoings for accommodation or for food and drink or for incidental expenses.  (again, here still does not mention the travel allowance has to be stated on the PAYG payment summary statement. On the other hand it can be an amount yet to be paid.)

Now the question leads to us what an allowance is?
The legislations have no clear definition in relation to this concept. TR92/15 gives it a common interpretation, that the payment is an allowance when a person is paid a definite predetermined amount to cover an estimated expense.

what it means by “must be paid as an allowance”
TD2012/17 states that one should read the ruling in line with TR 2004/6, and TR2004/6 further clarifies "Must be paid as an allowance" as follows:

Para 59 indicates that folded-in payment as part of normal wage, (eg. Under workplace agreement) is not considered to be an allowance. The fold-in payment is usually… how should I explain this…  For example, before you started your work, even before you know where you travel to and whether you need to travel, purely based on the nature of your position it might requires you to travel, you negotiated with your boss and arranged some certain amount, let’s say $ 8,000 in addition to your agreed salary $100,000, then your annual salary effectively would $108,000 on your PAYG payment summary statement. This $8,000 is a fold-in payment, which is not considered to be an allowance.

Para 61 also indicates that a token amount of allowance, for example $5 per day to cover meals for work travel away from home is not considered to be a payment expected to cover the purchase of 3 meals per day.

The tests of "Must be paid as an allowance" in TR2004/6 are to ensure the travel allowance is bona fide; the allowance is for a particular travel, and with an intention from employer to cover the work travel expense on estimation, which aligns with the rest of the ruling.

Finally, an allowance is assessable income under s.15-2 ITAA1997

Overall, all the information in Ruling, Tax Decision, and tax legislations, none of those has an indication that the travel allowance need to be separately stated on the PAYG payment summary statement.

Maybe my understanding of tax system is still limited, that is why I still keep learning and updating my knowledge. If there is any reading I should have covered, please provide me some references and I will be more than happy to discuss and learn from others. After all that is what keeps us growing.

I know this is not a professional forum, but we are having a public discussion or debate if you like. Not trying to undermine one another, but I would expect a true elite with vast experience as claimed should present a case with facts, references and reasonings. Debating with "whatever" and no reference is not really professional, and totally lost the point of professional discussion, isn't it?

Yes, after all it is the taxpayer's ultimate responsibility in relation to his or her income tax return, no matter it goes through a tax agent or not. Isn't it true?

By performing a fiduciary duty and charging for it, one professional, on one hand, should ensure the integrity of the law and system is properly maintained, on the other hand he also needs to ensure to understand the law and manage clients' tax affairs in the best way for their best interest.  

Having said that, no body would know all, certainly not me. So if you think my understanding is not on the right track, i welcome the correction. but  please provide some reference. For someone like you whom i respect highly, i would expect more from you, my friend.

发表于 2012-10-6 20:33 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 3IX37 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 3IX37 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
oz2009 发表于 2012-10-6 12:31
大师, 那公司给我的100也要报税是吧。

如果是的,写在哪个section?

An allowance should be disclosed in item 2 in your tax return.

发表于 2012-10-6 20:39 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 3IX37 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 3IX37 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Bailey 发表于 2012-10-6 19:22
已经扔了一些票据,有Credit Card transaction  的还勉强,Cash 的部分但愿可以用Travel Diary。 ...

If you follow the steps, the travel diary is OK. dont forget if for those small amount individually less than $10 and overall less than $200 diary method is acceptable too. so you should weigh out each option.

发表于 2012-10-8 21:50 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 JasonLiu@Au 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 JasonLiu@Au 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
本帖最后由 JasonLiu@Au 于 2012-10-8 22:03 编辑

顶这个帖子。 我是CPA,但不是税务方面的。愿意请教楼上有经验的大师。

我去年出差130天,公司给的Per Diem只有ATO Rate的一半。我的计划是先把公司发的Per Diem加到Income 部分的第2节 (Allowance,earnings,tips, directors fees etc), 然后按照ATO允许的上限申报出差费用,放在D2 work-related travel expenses.

公司给的Per Diem是以旅行之前发的一个统一金额,例如$100一天。不是那种出差之后按照发票实报室销的那种。 这个Per Diem 也不在Group Certificate上面。

我准备的Supporting document是
1:Per Diem申请表格
2:实际收到Per Diem的收据
3:每次出差前,经理发的travel approval 电子邮件
4:旅行社中介发的行程表

我的理由如下:
1: What is travel allowance?
A travel allowance is a payment made to an employee to cover expenses that are:

incurred when your employee travels away from their home in the course of their duties
for accommodation, food, drink or incidental expenses related to the travel.
When a travel allowance is paid there may be a requirement to withhold an amount from the payment. The information in Withholding from allowances outlines the correct withholding treatment of allowances.

注解:Allowance may be withhold not must be withhold.

2: What are the differences between allowances and reimbursements?

Allowances are amounts paid to cover anticipated costs or as compensation for conditions of employment, and are paid regardless of whether the employee incurs an expense. Allowances are assessable income to the employee and are generally included as income in their tax return. The employee may be entitled to claim a deduction. Reimbursements made to employees are exact compensation for actual expenses incurred, and the employer may be subject to fringe benefits tax (FBT). If the reimbursement is covered by FBT, the amount is not assessable income to the employee, and the employee cannot claim a deduction.

注解:Allowance 是预计的费用,  Reimbursements 是准确的事后申报的费用。

3: Allowance 低于ATO Rate是可以不用Withhold。

the allowance is paid at the same rate or below the 'reasonable travel allowance' rate, and the allowance is separately accounted for, no withholding is necessary. In addition, the travel allowance does not need to be shown on an employee's payment summary.

If the allowance is paid above the reasonable travel allowance rate (in total), there is a requirement to withhold from the amount over the reasonable allowances amount. The total amount of the allowance should be included on an employee's payment summary in the allowance box with an explanation.


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发表于 2012-10-13 16:17 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jordan 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jordan 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
非专业人士的common sense的角度来看,如果你不能书面证明你的开销多于公司给你的津贴,你是不能claim这种花费的。要不然岂不乱套了。公司可以把出差当作福利了,公司一分钱都不用掏,让你出差就是让你退税。
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发表于 2012-10-13 16:22 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jordan 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jordan 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
JasonLiu@Au 发表于 2012-10-8 21:50
顶这个帖子。 我是CPA,但不是税务方面的。愿意请教楼上有经验的大师。

我去年出差130天,公司给的Per Die ...

还CPA呢,我敢拿我的鞋赌,你肯定报错了。

发表于 2012-10-14 09:20 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 JasonLiu@Au 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 JasonLiu@Au 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Jordan 发表于 2012-10-13 16:22
还CPA呢,我敢拿我的鞋赌,你肯定报错了。

会计领域博大精深,尤其是税法. 不是这个领域的会计师其实和普通人区别不多.

如果是Common sense有用的话,那么就不需要Taxation Accountant的职位了.楼上的可以引用一下ATO的条文来证实一下吗?

发表于 2012-10-14 21:28 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 oz2009 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 oz2009 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
Jordan 发表于 2012-10-13 16:22
还CPA呢,我敢拿我的鞋赌,你肯定报错了。

你输了。

发表于 2012-10-15 10:06 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 Jordan 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 Jordan 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
oz2009 发表于 2012-10-14 21:28
你输了。

我可能真输了,我太相信ATO了,看来制定法律的真不是一般人。

来拿我的鞋吧,要是你哪天赌没了你的。

发表于 2012-11-3 23:45 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 oz2009 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 oz2009 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
后来有人退成功了吗?

上来吱个声吧。

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发表于 2012-11-4 01:06 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 qzard 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 qzard 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
太长了 看了 一半 没有耐心了。。。。

发表于 2012-11-4 09:12 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 JohnnySu 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 JohnnySu 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
你不能用substantiation exemption(set rate per day) 因为你没有收到"boni fide"taxable travel allowance.
但是当然你还是可以claim工作相关的travel expenses扣除公司给你的reimbursement. 你需要保留全部收据
联系方式
http://www.oursteps.com.au/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=622814

发表于 2012-11-4 19:23 |显示全部楼层
此文章由 oz2009 原创或转贴,不代表本站立场和观点,版权归 oursteps.com.au 和作者 oz2009 所有!转贴必须注明作者、出处和本声明,并保持内容完整
taxbreak 发表于 2012-11-4 09:12
你不能用substantiation exemption(set rate per day) 因为你没有收到"boni fide"taxable travel allowance ...

不是说不要收剧,只要保留吗

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