投资房折旧最大化之我见

alias-unknown

原帖由 diva 于 2010-6-16 15:50 发表
不明白为什么折旧后要多交capital gain tax，cgt不是只和你的卖价买价有关吗？ 还请赐教。

http://www.propertyinvesting.com/strategies/negativegearing.html

sabrinasyd

Truth #2: The dangers of depreciation

Buying a property based on depreciation benefits is dangerous and deceptive.

Depreciation is an accounting term used to describe the wear and tear of an asset that occurs over time. In practical terms, depreciation on a property refers to the carpet wearing down, the walls becoming chipped or stained and the furniture dating.

In most new properties you are allowed to claim a tax deduction for the depreciation of the fixtures and fittings and in certain circumstances you may also claim a building write-off of either 2.5 per cent or 4 per cent of the property (not land) value too.

Slick marketing companies sell the notion of the taxman paying off your property using depreciation and building write-off deductions, but this sales pitch is quite deceptive because you don't avoid paying tax with depreciation, you just defer it.

Commonsense suggests that depreciating an appreciating asset like property will give you a tax deduction today, but you'll have to repay it in the form of capital gains tax at a later date when you sell.

'Bracket-creep' issues can catch out many taxpayers too. If you earn $50,000 when you buy the property you will only be able to claim a deduction for depreciation at 43.5 cents in the dollar, but if your income rises to $60,000 when you sell then you'll need to repay the depreciation at 48.5 cents in the dollar.

If you don't ever plan to sell the property then at a minimum you should recognise that your depreciation tax deduction represents the wear and tear on your asset that will need to be eventually refurbished in order to continue attracting quality tenants.

Finally, beware any financial model that allows for depreciation benefits but does not include a maintenance budget. You cannot have depreciation without an expectation of repair costs - even new properties still need tap washers replaced.

谁能解释一下这段话？

ialienam

大意是說
"中介/賣房子的人都說depreciation的好處, 是政府幫你付錢等等. 但沒有說到其實你不是不付稅. 只是晚付.
example..你現在賺$50k, 你退回來的稅是43.5c, 但以後你要賣的話, 你新水到$60k 你要交的稅是48.5c. 你還要付更多的意思.

最主要是這些depreciation"好處"都沒有把修理費用算進去. 你一定要有花錢修理才會有depreciation. 你要花道錢才能退到稅"

解釋不好請多多見諒.

angelashu

The amount depreciated will be deducted from your cost base of your investment property, that means you will pay more capital gain tax once you sell your investment property.

The tax system is very developed in Australia, you can't take big advantage as a salary earner.

Seiya

原帖由 angelashu 于 2010-10-29 14:20 发表
The amount depreciated will be deducted from your cost base of your investment property, that means you will pay more capital gain tax once you sell your investment property.

The tax system is very  ...

你是说到时候你在卖掉这个房子的时候计算CGT的时候还要把这些折旧的部分再加上去？？真的吗？

angelashu

原帖由 Seiya 于 2010-10-29 15:38 发表

你是说到时候你在卖掉这个房子的时候计算CGT的时候还要把这些折旧的部分再加上去？？真的吗？

My friend told me that. The accounting gurus on this website, please confirm this here.

[ 本帖最后由 angelashu 于 2010-10-29 15:48 编辑 ]

rwmerrylands

感谢楼主分享。正需要投资房折旧的信息呢。。。。。。

ialienam

I actually asked my accountant over the weekend.

He replied
"On the sale of the investment property your CGT cost base for the property may need to be reduced by:

    * the capital works deductions you have claimed, and
    * the capital works deductions you didn't claim but can still claim provided the date to amend the relevant income tax assessment has not expired.

It looks like, yes, if you claim the depreciation then you have to the cost base on the sale of your investment property. (Unless you bought your property like before 13 May 1997).
If true, then...

Seiya

原帖由 ialienam 于 2010-11-1 08:25 发表
I actually asked my accountant over the weekend.

He replied
"On the sale of the investment property your CGT cost base for the property may need to be reduced by:

    * the capital works deductions  ...

这样说的话那么折旧的价值也不是很重大了，折旧省下的到时候还是要吐出来的

alias-unknown

其实投资房产成功是说房子能涨价。负扣税不是说完全不能得利，而是看你买和卖时的情形。比如现在年薪10万，买了房，税率是高的，回扣是高的。到你半退休或全退休时卖掉时，税率是低过现在。你也不会全部吐出。

angelashu

原帖由 Seiya 于 2010-11-1 09:13 发表

这样说的话那么折旧的价值也不是很重大了，折旧省下的到时候还是要吐出来的

Your accountant makes money then, you don't see those people keep silence on the post...

Seiya

原帖由 angelashu 于 2010-11-1 09:39 发表



Your accountant makes money then, you don't see those people keep silence on the post...

再解释一下？

ialienam

他意思應該說這些accountant就是靠這些賺錢...要是他們在版上都免費告訴你, 他們還賺什哩~~

Anyway.. 這depreciation我老實說也沒100%明白..我accountant也e-mail一大堆example我也看不太懂. 真有investment property最好找一個accountant問明白. 我是沒investment property, 我accountant講錯了他也不用負責. So...找個專家問問嚕. 這錢省不得.

不過贊成上面說的, investment property的本來就是看capital appreciation..這些negative gearing..depreciation都只是minimise your loss.. Instead of losing $1, you now lose X'c only. 而外面這些"marketing"也不會和人說太明白 (他們說不定也不知, 上面說sales也這樣講才能賣).
"省稅"..政府也不傻.. 要你交stamp duty先, 你賺用多..他賺更多.

angelashu

原帖由 Seiya 于 2010-11-1 10:04 发表

再解释一下？

What I meant is that the property investment advisor or your accountant or property depreciation analyst (eg. LZ) they normally only mention the good side of the investment property like how much tax rebate you can have from your investment loss and depreciation, the bad side or negative side they won't tell you until you find them out by yourself. If people was no long interested in investing property, lots financial advisor, or property investment specialist etc would lose their jobs...so on a long term view, the property will and have to keep going up.

lol

折旧还是应该划算的
会降低你当年的taxable income，而且从cash flow的角度来说
会直接增加你的cash inflow
而且卖的时候，就算这部分会记入cost base
但是不要忘记，hold超过12个月的，你交的CGT是有50%折扣的
然后才按照当年的收入交税，可以选择收入少的年份卖掉

Seiya

谢谢ls，午休时候做了一下research，发现不光CAPITAL WORKS 在计算CGT的时候要补上，就是内部的DECORATION COST最终也要加到TAXABLE INCOME里面。

angelashu

Likewise the fix asset depreciation, the written down value is the cost to work out your CPT.

diva

你好，谢谢咨询，已经给你短信了。

znby

学习了

diva

不好意思，很久没上来解答大家的问题。

capital gain tax 和depreciation的关系不复杂，房屋折旧分两个部分：结构和设备，当你计算投资房的CGT时，结构那部分的折旧是要加回来的，但是设备的那部分不在计算CGT当中。举个简单的例子：

投资者50万买的投资房，5年后，以70万的价格卖掉，这5年中的折旧数额为6万(3万的结构+3万的设备)，那么该投资者最后的CG大致为：70万 - 50万 + 3万= 23万。设备上的3万折旧不用来计算capital gain因为它不是capital works。

虽然现在claim的折旧有一半将来卖房时候还要再交税，但我还是会选择现在拿到现金，因为从金钱的时间效应来看，今天的1万远比5年后的1万值钱，而且对于高收入的投资者来说，现在省的税比将来交的税要多。

cocowhite

M,ark

ialienam

opportunity cost也要算進去. 你現在省下的錢說不定可以讓你賺更多.
我想article要說的就是 不要為了買投資房就單純為了省稅.

而它裡面就只要一般投資客要小心, 很多東西不是"sales"講的這樣美麗.

不過我也贊成前面講的, 太多人都要靠investment property賺錢..大家也都只講好的, 但很多要注意的都不會說.

哈～～不過真的太多人也不知到這事. 我朋友是CPA她也都不知這depreciation最後會加回去.

edwardt

这个折旧是自己做还是找人做？ 找会计做吗？

babymaqin

原帖由 diva 于 2010-11-1 16:57 发表
不好意思，很久没上来解答大家的问题。

capital gain tax 和depreciation的关系不复杂，房屋折旧分两个部分：结构和设备，当你计算投资房的CGT时，结构那部分的折旧是要加回来的，但是设备的那部分不在计算CGT当中。举个简单的 ...

相当赞同楼主！ 我已经发信给你了，想做一下房屋折旧。谢谢

DMW

学习了

qichxi

楼主，我现在还不是PR,只能买新房。

是买新房的apartment好？还是买新的townhouse好？

能不能买楼花后直接折旧？我工资挺高的

潜水老虎

眼馋的人飘过

lazysnail

楼主有个很白的疑问可以解答下吗？ 我一直听人说折旧7年。。然后就没什么税务上的折旧优惠了。。。为什么这里不同的？。。而且我确实看到不少一到7年把房拿出来卖的。。这是怎么回事啊？

diva

我个人喜欢买townhouse，增值好，租金高，物业低，空租低，不过也要看地段。楼花要等房子settle才可以算折旧。

diva

从房屋建成使用之日起，房屋结构可折40年或25年，设备用具的折旧年份各不相同。7年后卖房，可能是跟所谓的房价‘7年翻番’有关，当然了，折旧在前5年的数额较多，逐年递减。